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		<title>By: Twitter Trackbacks for No, I was not disappointed by Premier Wen’s speech [mpettis.com] on Topsy.com</title>
		<link>http://mpettis.com/2009/03/no-i-was-not-disappointed-by-premier-wen%e2%80%99s-speech/comment-page-1/#comment-3364</link>
		<dc:creator>Twitter Trackbacks for No, I was not disappointed by Premier Wen’s speech [mpettis.com] on Topsy.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Aug 2009 23:11:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mpettis.com/?p=356#comment-3364</guid>
		<description>[...] No, I was not disappointed by Premier Wen’s speech  mpettis.com/2009/03/no-i-was-not-disappointed-by-premier-wen%E2%80%99s-speech &#8211; view page &#8211; cached  March 5th, 2009 by Michael Pettis &#124; Filed under Economic growth, Labor and &#8212; From the page [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] No, I was not disappointed by Premier Wen’s speech  mpettis.com/2009/03/no-i-was-not-disappointed-by-premier-wen%E2%80%99s-speech &ndash; view page &ndash; cached  March 5th, 2009 by Michael Pettis | Filed under Economic growth, Labor and &mdash; From the page [...]</p>
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		<title>By: NitWit</title>
		<link>http://mpettis.com/2009/03/no-i-was-not-disappointed-by-premier-wen%e2%80%99s-speech/comment-page-1/#comment-1045</link>
		<dc:creator>NitWit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Mar 2009 13:45:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mpettis.com/?p=356#comment-1045</guid>
		<description>Still, the important question is not who is or might be a meathead.  The all important question is how the stimulus plan now envisioned in China and the plans being formulated for China&#039;s economy gibe with the documented facts and data which describe   environmental reality in China today and in the near future.  For some strange reason, most economists seem to believe that they can continue to argue their positions without including real world data which is being coughed up by physical science researchers, on a daily basis.  The evidence is continually mounting and coalescing around some very dire predictions for the economy being caused by some very significant ongoing changes to China&#039;s environment, including water resources, land usage, demographics, you name it.

Any economist or blogger blogging about the China economy who fails to take into account the all important environmental feedbacks from the real world in China which necessarily impinge on China&#039;s economy may not be a meathead, but any talk without environmental input then might become just idle chatter, and in the long-term, not much use at all.

Of course it is not easy to try to integrate economic theory/hearsay with hard data about China derived from the physical sciences.  But this must be done, in an interdisciplinary way, in order to make any real worthwhile sense of what is happening in China.

By the way, &#039;meathead&#039; is a jocular term with very little if any disparaging connotations.  But the term &#039;economist&#039; or &#039;banker&#039; these days, well, what good can be said about them?  The staid banker of yore is not part of our present culture.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Still, the important question is not who is or might be a meathead.  The all important question is how the stimulus plan now envisioned in China and the plans being formulated for China&#8217;s economy gibe with the documented facts and data which describe   environmental reality in China today and in the near future.  For some strange reason, most economists seem to believe that they can continue to argue their positions without including real world data which is being coughed up by physical science researchers, on a daily basis.  The evidence is continually mounting and coalescing around some very dire predictions for the economy being caused by some very significant ongoing changes to China&#8217;s environment, including water resources, land usage, demographics, you name it.</p>
<p>Any economist or blogger blogging about the China economy who fails to take into account the all important environmental feedbacks from the real world in China which necessarily impinge on China&#8217;s economy may not be a meathead, but any talk without environmental input then might become just idle chatter, and in the long-term, not much use at all.</p>
<p>Of course it is not easy to try to integrate economic theory/hearsay with hard data about China derived from the physical sciences.  But this must be done, in an interdisciplinary way, in order to make any real worthwhile sense of what is happening in China.</p>
<p>By the way, &#8216;meathead&#8217; is a jocular term with very little if any disparaging connotations.  But the term &#8216;economist&#8217; or &#8216;banker&#8217; these days, well, what good can be said about them?  The staid banker of yore is not part of our present culture.</p>
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		<title>By: NitWit</title>
		<link>http://mpettis.com/2009/03/no-i-was-not-disappointed-by-premier-wen%e2%80%99s-speech/comment-page-1/#comment-1044</link>
		<dc:creator>NitWit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Mar 2009 13:15:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mpettis.com/?p=356#comment-1044</guid>
		<description>Still, the important question is not who is or might be a meathead.  The all important question is how the stimulus plan now envisioned in China and the plans being formulated for China&#039;s economy gibe with the documented facts and data which describe   environmental reality in China today and in the near future.  For some strange reason, most economists seem to believe that they can continue to argue their positions without including real world data which is being coughed up by physical science researchers, on a daily basis.  The evidence is continually mounting and coalescing around some very dire predictions for the economy being caused by some very significant ongoing changes to China&#039;s environment, including water resources, land usage, demographics, you name it.

Any economist or blogger blogging about the China economy who fails to take into account the all important environmental feedbacks from the real world in China which necessarily impinge on China&#039;s economy may not be a meathead, but any talk without environmental input then might become just idle chatter, and in the long-term, not much use at all.

Of course it is not easy to try to integrate economic theory/hearsay with hard data about China derived from the physical sciences.  But this must be done, in an interdisciplinary way, in order to make any real worthwhile sense of what is happening in China.

By the way, &#039;meathead&#039; is a jocular term with very little if any disparaging connotations.  But the term &#039;economist&#039; or &#039;banker&#039; these days, well, what good can be said about them?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Still, the important question is not who is or might be a meathead.  The all important question is how the stimulus plan now envisioned in China and the plans being formulated for China&#8217;s economy gibe with the documented facts and data which describe   environmental reality in China today and in the near future.  For some strange reason, most economists seem to believe that they can continue to argue their positions without including real world data which is being coughed up by physical science researchers, on a daily basis.  The evidence is continually mounting and coalescing around some very dire predictions for the economy being caused by some very significant ongoing changes to China&#8217;s environment, including water resources, land usage, demographics, you name it.</p>
<p>Any economist or blogger blogging about the China economy who fails to take into account the all important environmental feedbacks from the real world in China which necessarily impinge on China&#8217;s economy may not be a meathead, but any talk without environmental input then might become just idle chatter, and in the long-term, not much use at all.</p>
<p>Of course it is not easy to try to integrate economic theory/hearsay with hard data about China derived from the physical sciences.  But this must be done, in an interdisciplinary way, in order to make any real worthwhile sense of what is happening in China.</p>
<p>By the way, &#8216;meathead&#8217; is a jocular term with very little if any disparaging connotations.  But the term &#8216;economist&#8217; or &#8216;banker&#8217; these days, well, what good can be said about them?</p>
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		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://mpettis.com/2009/03/no-i-was-not-disappointed-by-premier-wen%e2%80%99s-speech/comment-page-1/#comment-1043</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Mar 2009 12:07:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mpettis.com/?p=356#comment-1043</guid>
		<description>Kalasend, I will try to respond to your comment in today&#039;s blog entry.  Dr. Loo, I would be happy to meet.  My email is michael@pettis.com</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kalasend, I will try to respond to your comment in today&#8217;s blog entry.  Dr. Loo, I would be happy to meet.  My email is <a href="mailto:michael@pettis.com">michael@pettis.com</a></p>
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		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://mpettis.com/2009/03/no-i-was-not-disappointed-by-premier-wen%e2%80%99s-speech/comment-page-1/#comment-1042</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Mar 2009 09:44:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mpettis.com/?p=356#comment-1042</guid>
		<description>I generally try to approve all comments that are not wholly irrelevant, but some of the recent ones are veering off track.  Let&#039;s drop it, please.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I generally try to approve all comments that are not wholly irrelevant, but some of the recent ones are veering off track.  Let&#8217;s drop it, please.</p>
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		<title>By: Dr.Frank Loo</title>
		<link>http://mpettis.com/2009/03/no-i-was-not-disappointed-by-premier-wen%e2%80%99s-speech/comment-page-1/#comment-1041</link>
		<dc:creator>Dr.Frank Loo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Mar 2009 09:43:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mpettis.com/?p=356#comment-1041</guid>
		<description>Michael is doing a great job and I have plenty of respect for him. I agree with Jack Ross that the credit bubbles is a very complex issue and is much debated among serious economists. If one doesn&#039;t agree with Michael on this issue is perfectly normal. However, it would not be normal if everyone agrees with him.

Michael, when I am in Beijing I will surely want to meet with you at your bar. Can you drop me a note in private to let me know the address. Thanks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Michael is doing a great job and I have plenty of respect for him. I agree with Jack Ross that the credit bubbles is a very complex issue and is much debated among serious economists. If one doesn&#8217;t agree with Michael on this issue is perfectly normal. However, it would not be normal if everyone agrees with him.</p>
<p>Michael, when I am in Beijing I will surely want to meet with you at your bar. Can you drop me a note in private to let me know the address. Thanks.</p>
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		<title>By: Jack Ross</title>
		<link>http://mpettis.com/2009/03/no-i-was-not-disappointed-by-premier-wen%e2%80%99s-speech/comment-page-1/#comment-1040</link>
		<dc:creator>Jack Ross</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Mar 2009 08:09:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mpettis.com/?p=356#comment-1040</guid>
		<description>Waiting Out, the whole issue of the origins of liquidity and its impact in creating credit bubbles is very complex and much debated among serious economists, and although I am not fully in agreement, my understanding is that this argument is widely accepted among financial historian, of which group Pettis is a pretty prominent member.  It is great that you have been able to cut through this debate quickly and effortlessly and figure out that the whole discussion is so wrong that you are justified in insulting those not in the know, but another possible argument is that you shouldn&#039;t be worrying your pretty little head over these things and go back to designing an innovative color scheme for a new cellphone.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Waiting Out, the whole issue of the origins of liquidity and its impact in creating credit bubbles is very complex and much debated among serious economists, and although I am not fully in agreement, my understanding is that this argument is widely accepted among financial historian, of which group Pettis is a pretty prominent member.  It is great that you have been able to cut through this debate quickly and effortlessly and figure out that the whole discussion is so wrong that you are justified in insulting those not in the know, but another possible argument is that you shouldn&#8217;t be worrying your pretty little head over these things and go back to designing an innovative color scheme for a new cellphone.</p>
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		<title>By: XuX</title>
		<link>http://mpettis.com/2009/03/no-i-was-not-disappointed-by-premier-wen%e2%80%99s-speech/comment-page-1/#comment-1039</link>
		<dc:creator>XuX</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Mar 2009 06:31:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mpettis.com/?p=356#comment-1039</guid>
		<description>Ha ha meathead is a very good word which I didn&#039;t know before.  Since ignorant and excited TV business shows were as much causing the financial euphoria as any banker I don&#039;t know why Mr. Waiting feels he should be praised while Professor Pettis was insulted.  From my knowledge Mr. Pettis has worked much harder for many years to warn about the dangers of the bubble than those very stupid television shows.  Perhaps Mr. Waiting knows more about his televison industry than he knows about economics and history.  That is a good thing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ha ha meathead is a very good word which I didn&#8217;t know before.  Since ignorant and excited TV business shows were as much causing the financial euphoria as any banker I don&#8217;t know why Mr. Waiting feels he should be praised while Professor Pettis was insulted.  From my knowledge Mr. Pettis has worked much harder for many years to warn about the dangers of the bubble than those very stupid television shows.  Perhaps Mr. Waiting knows more about his televison industry than he knows about economics and history.  That is a good thing.</p>
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		<title>By: waiting out</title>
		<link>http://mpettis.com/2009/03/no-i-was-not-disappointed-by-premier-wen%e2%80%99s-speech/comment-page-1/#comment-1038</link>
		<dc:creator>waiting out</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Mar 2009 05:09:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mpettis.com/?p=356#comment-1038</guid>
		<description>Thanks a lot, Michael. For the explicit insult. At least I work in a profession that still has much of its credibility; after all we have your cell phone and the satellite TV you watch to our credit. You are only destroying your credibility of what remains of the part of the prescription that you are still right. Way to go, bankers of the world, even those turning into professors.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks a lot, Michael. For the explicit insult. At least I work in a profession that still has much of its credibility; after all we have your cell phone and the satellite TV you watch to our credit. You are only destroying your credibility of what remains of the part of the prescription that you are still right. Way to go, bankers of the world, even those turning into professors.</p>
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		<title>By: kalasend</title>
		<link>http://mpettis.com/2009/03/no-i-was-not-disappointed-by-premier-wen%e2%80%99s-speech/comment-page-1/#comment-1037</link>
		<dc:creator>kalasend</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Mar 2009 04:07:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mpettis.com/?p=356#comment-1037</guid>
		<description>Dear Prof. Pettis, I&#039;ve been reading your blog for a while but this is first time I comment here.

You have been emphasizing a lot about China&#039;s overcapacity leading to trade friction. While I don&#039;t disagree with that, I do want to question the magnitude of the effects of China&#039;s continued export. China&#039;s exports are mostly light manufacturing goods like toys, garments and other labor intensive goods which the modernized west simply lack the competitiveness nor the will to do. 

Putting it in a daily life example: China&#039;s continued overcapacity is more likely to drive down the price tags in Walmart or Footlocker, perhaps a little bit on iPhones as well but that can hardly harm the Americans and Europeans because they have never been competing with China in those areas in the first place.

In fact, I opin that further loose credit going into China&#039;s manufacturing sector means continuously decreasing price of consumer products which would actually suit the lowering consumption power of the developed world. Though it will serve no good for the Chinese factories because I swear most of them have already been running with extremely thin margins, and I have always argued that profits of these factories come from its labors rather than customers.

The only issue I can see is, officials of the west only look at the account numbers without digging into the context behind the numbers. I agree this is a very likely scenario, given the competence of government officials we have grown to know of... However, in that case this is more of a communication and/or trade negotiation matter rather than a real problem.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Prof. Pettis, I&#8217;ve been reading your blog for a while but this is first time I comment here.</p>
<p>You have been emphasizing a lot about China&#8217;s overcapacity leading to trade friction. While I don&#8217;t disagree with that, I do want to question the magnitude of the effects of China&#8217;s continued export. China&#8217;s exports are mostly light manufacturing goods like toys, garments and other labor intensive goods which the modernized west simply lack the competitiveness nor the will to do. </p>
<p>Putting it in a daily life example: China&#8217;s continued overcapacity is more likely to drive down the price tags in Walmart or Footlocker, perhaps a little bit on iPhones as well but that can hardly harm the Americans and Europeans because they have never been competing with China in those areas in the first place.</p>
<p>In fact, I opin that further loose credit going into China&#8217;s manufacturing sector means continuously decreasing price of consumer products which would actually suit the lowering consumption power of the developed world. Though it will serve no good for the Chinese factories because I swear most of them have already been running with extremely thin margins, and I have always argued that profits of these factories come from its labors rather than customers.</p>
<p>The only issue I can see is, officials of the west only look at the account numbers without digging into the context behind the numbers. I agree this is a very likely scenario, given the competence of government officials we have grown to know of&#8230; However, in that case this is more of a communication and/or trade negotiation matter rather than a real problem.</p>
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